Curse

Ultimate_Gaara · Sep 16, 2005, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Lately the only droppers in my groups have been in tombs (omg only 6% boost, we = the suck, *player who knows nothing about anything has left*)

As for the drop rate in random areans, i don't really know because ive been mostly playing d2, but from what i have seen it seems to have gone down for me... i played for a few hours last night and not one person droped on my team

Fantus · Sep 16, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

I am playing a lot in random arena and I can't confirm that people would drop more after the update. Some people still drop immediately when one non level 20 char is present and they often still drop the moment they die and wait not for the res. Nothing much different here.

To the guy who thinks that some people are n00bs just because they use weapons like Firey Dragon Swords in PvP... get a clue! Not every Firey Dragon Sword is a blank weapon without any mods on it. I don't play a warrior, but I have a FDS in my bank that would make most users of the standard PvP weapons drool over. My mesmer uses a Ghostly Staff...does that make me a n00b? If you think it does - well, that staff isn't a blank weapon either...

John Bloodstone · Sep 16, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

i'll probably get flamed profusely for this, but mending is a great skill on a warrior.

so many times as warrior with mending, my whole team dies except for me because poisoning/bleeding/hexes etc. whittles all their life down to zero. it's really sad just how easily poison kills most players because they don't have the good sense to put on mending. but me with mending, i don't have that problem at all.

Aye, and lets see you manage a good damage combo with such a poor energy recharge (adrenaline isn't everything). Not to mention all the time mending isn't actually healing you, you're effectively wasting energy AND the fact that practically any other healing spell will heal you faster because if you get spiked, mending isn't gonna do anything.

Poison, bleeding? use mend ailment
Hexes? use smite hex or just take it on the chin and plow through it. (in 4v4 anyway)

Numa Pompilius · Sep 16, 2005, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Since I started the thread I guess it's OK for me to derail it a bit (and I guess the answer to my original question is "no, it's always been this bad, you just didn't notice because then you played a warrior, and now you play a mesmer"

)...

Aaanyway... mending. When I played warrior I brought mending. If there was a primary monk, necro, or mesmer in the team, I'd put it on them, otherwise on myself. Mending really _does_ prolong the life of a player in 4v4, and the thing is, warriors have so sucky energy renewal that losing one pip doesn't really matter.
I used a zealous sword (there goes the other pip!) to get energy and did most of my actual damage through smiting. To be honest energy wasn't much of an issue with that build because by the time balthazars aura & symbol of wrath had recharged, I had full energy again.

Maxiemonster · Sep 16, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

As long as you play a Monk, and you're good at it, you always have a good team (well, a lvl 6 Ranger didn't help that much previous round, but you can't have everything).

BunnyMaster · Sep 16, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

I've been playing Random Arena since the start. Not only is the Faction great (still need to unlock only one Mesmer Elite, yay!) but the whole testing concept is fun too. Somehow "The System" has tagged me and put me in 4x Me/Mo / 2x Me/Mo+2xMo/Me -teams. The reactions were most of the time positive, things like "Owwwww, poor casters!" and "This can be fun!" were said. No one dropped out. Not even when a lvl18 entered the team after someone dropped.

Kampfkeks · Sep 16, 2005, 12:12 PM // 12:12

The only time i leave a team right away is when a bash-me-bait joins, namely someone with <20 levels. It it maybe not for their lack of experience, after all they could be very experienced but...
they lack armor, they lack skills, they lack attributes. Basically they lack everything and on top of that they're also top priority target as they are such an easy kill. So those are putting you at a fight of 3vs4. Don't get me wrong, a fierce fight is very enjoyable but i just want my teammates to be reliable, not some beat-me-bait. I'd rather fight a TRUE 3vs4 than a 3 1/2 vs 4.

About those bashing mending. When i notice you trying to bash a wa/mo for mending in the arena just because your ego is to ****** ** to fight with newcomers prepare to get your share of bash as well as you most probably will use bad skills too or have a flaw in your build.

Algren Cole · Sep 16, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

The only time i leave a team right away is when a bash-me-bait joins, namely someone with <20 levels. It it maybe not for their lack of experience, after all they could be very experienced but...
they lack armor, they lack skills, they lack attributes. Basically they lack everything and on top of that they're also top priority target as they are such an easy kill. So those are putting you at a fight of 3vs4. Don't get me wrong, a fierce fight is very enjoyable but i just want my teammates to be reliable, not some beat-me-bait. I'd rather fight a TRUE 3vs4 than a 3 1/2 vs 4.

About those bashing mending. When i notice you trying to bash a wa/mo for mending in the arena just because your ego is to ****** ** to fight with newcomers prepare to get your share of bash as well as you most probably will use bad skills too or have a flaw in your build.

this game isn't about level...Why does it bother you if there is an <20 character on your team? 3.5 vs 4 is still significantly better than 3 vs 4.

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It it maybe not for their lack of experience, after all they could be very experienced but...

which is what the game is about...it's not about level, it's about skill.

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they lack armor

my level 3 necro has drok armor....im a sure a lvl18 could figure out how to get drok armor.

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they lack skills

last I checked you could only pack 8 skills at a time....so I don't see how this is even significant.

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they lack attributes

if you specialize correctly you can be effective without 200 attribute points.

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Basically they lack everything and on top of that they're also top priority target as they are such an easy kill.

good...so do something intelligent while you aren't getting beat on.

Vesital · Sep 16, 2005, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

The only time i leave a team right away is when a bash-me-bait joins, namely someone with <20 levels. It it maybe not for their lack of experience, after all they could be very experienced but...
they lack armor, they lack skills, they lack attributes. Basically they lack everything and on top of that they're also top priority target as they are such an easy kill. So those are putting you at a fight of 3vs4. Don't get me wrong, a fierce fight is very enjoyable but i just want my teammates to be reliable, not some beat-me-bait. I'd rather fight a TRUE 3vs4 than a 3 1/2 vs 4.

I am going to have to agree with you on this one. If you have a lvl 15 char, why not make a Lvl 20 pvp char with the same skills, but more attributes, hp, and most likely better armor? I don't see the point in using these low lvl chars in places like Draks 4v4. Chances are if your only lvl15, you don't have many or any elites unlocked either. So personally, I think you should just make a pvp char. People shouldn't wine that their lvl15 char isn't getting into any pvp parties, or is disrespected when they are accepted or forced into a party. Just make a pvp char! You should always have one slot available for pvp chars.

Kampfkeks · Sep 16, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

[QUOTE=Algren Cole]this game isn't about level...Why does it bother you if there is an <20 character on your team? 3.5 vs 4 is still significantly better than 3 vs 4. [quote]

It is not when you are looking at it from a teamplay point of view. Sure you can just let him rot but what is that good for? As well as it wouldn't probably be 3.5 vs 4 but 2.5 vs 4 instead as one person would have to completely try and keep that lowlevel alive.

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which is what the game is about...it's not about level, it's about skill.

Face it, it is not in the way you want it to be. Level still does count, and a lot i might add. The saying that it is about skill refers to the fact that you can simply create a level 20 character. And i fail to see why those lowlevels in the Arena just don't do that.

[quote]my level 3 necro has drok armor....im a sure a lvl18 could figure out how to get drok armor.[/qoute]

Pardon me, but i got zero respect for those who get run to Droknar to fight in PVP when they shouldn't be having the armor. I can only assume but when someone does take the amount of time to get to Droknar and is into PVP he will probably abuse it in the lower level arenas. In which case i respect that level 18 and in that matter the level 3 even less.

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last I checked you could only pack 8 skills at a time....so I don't see how this is even significant.

Last time i checked, you can't get all skills in ascalon or lion's arch. I don't see how this problem can be insignificant. If that person has his uberleet skillsetup with skills from Droknar. I don't want to have him on my team for the reasons mentioned above.

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if you specialize correctly you can be effective without 200 attribute points.

Overspecialisation makes you weak in Guildwars.

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good...so do something intelligent while you aren't getting beat on.

Sure thing those 2 seconds it takes to kill him will save the day *cough cough*
On the other hand if he has Droknar Armor at a level less than 20, i'm not giving him any respect. Why not level 20? Because i can't check and so can't the opponents. But why should i respect a twinker who is in my eyes equal to a cheater? Him making a PVP Character won't change what he is, but this is about morale.
If there is something i don't know... fine, don't tell me. But if one can clearly see, i'm not supporting those.

Algren Cole · Sep 16, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Face it, it is not in the way you want it to be. Level still does count, and a lot i might add. The saying that it is about skill refers to the fact that you can simply create a level 20 character. And i fail to see why those lowlevels in the Arena just don't do that.

no...it doesn't. It's about skill. HP means NOTHING in this game. The only hitpoint that counts is the one that takes you from 1HP to 0HP...everything else is a buffer and not the least bit important.

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Pardon me, but i got zero respect for those who get run to Droknar to fight in PVP when they shouldn't be having the armor. I can only assume but when someone does take the amount of time to get to Droknar and is into PVP he will probably abuse it in the lower level arenas. In which case i respect that level 18 and in that matter the level 3 even less.

I ran myself to droknar...and I don't PvP with my PvE characters.

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Last time i checked, you can't get all skills in ascalon or lion's arch. I don't see how this problem can be insignificant. If that person has his uberleet skillsetup with skills from Droknar. I don't want to have him on my team for the reasons mentioned above.

you don't need all skills to be successful at PvP...I could design a build around just the skills one could obtain from Ascalon to Lions Arch that would be an effective build for PvP in random arena.

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Overspecialisation makes you weak in Guildwars.

no it doesn't...this shows just how little you know about the game. There are numerous builds that require 'overspecialization'.

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Sure thing those 2 seconds it takes to kill him will save the day *cough cough*

one of my ranger builds has 85 HP...it'd take you forever to kill him

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On the other hand if he has Droknar Armor at a level less than 20, i'm not giving him any respect.

I doubt he/she cares if he/she has your respect.

Kampfkeks · Sep 16, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

no...it doesn't. It's about skill. HP means NOTHING in this game. The only hitpoint that counts is the one that takes you from 1HP to 0HP...everything else is a buffer and not the least bit important.

If that is what you think i'm looking forward to see you on the other team only to prove you're wrong.

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I ran myself to droknar...and I don't PvP with my PvE characters.

Why getting upset about this then?

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you don't need all skills to be successful at PvP...I could design a build around just the skills one could obtain from Ascalon to Lions Arch that would be an effective build for PvP in random arena.

Do it then and post it here. Don't claim something you can't keep.

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no it doesn't...this shows just how little you know about the game. There are numerous builds that require 'overspecialization'.

Some skills just lose efficiency at higher attribute ranks, especially with the little payoff. Sure you can boost them all up to wonderlond but that will leave you with a serious weakness on the other hand. Don't assume i know "little" about the game.
I've unlocked all skills and used all of them in numerous PVP Sessions and most really don't justify overspecialising. And when they do, they'll leave you very weak in another aspect so yes... this is a weakness in Guildwars.

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one of my ranger builds has 85 HP...it'd take you forever to kill him

Or a single rend enchantment.

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I doubt he/she cares if he/she has your respect.

See and that is the difference between me and the average PVPer. I want to play with decent people. They don't. If they don't care for my respect they're not decent people to play with. Thus... to me... they are worthless.

Loquetus · Sep 16, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

i play random pvp alot
i don't see that many leavers
if people do leave, 75% it's cause a lowbie is in the party (lvl 15-19)
can't blame them cause people that aren't lvl 20 take extra dmge from the lvl 20's and deal less dmge, they have less atribute points so yet again less dmge and less hp (yet again they die easyer)

i normally stick it out though

also just would like to point out:
if 1 person leaves... it isn't the end of the world
i've had 3 matches in a row where someone would leave
each match we won flawless

Silmor · Sep 16, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

no...it doesn't. It's about skill. HP means NOTHING in this game. The only hitpoint that counts is the one that takes you from 1HP to 0HP...everything else is a buffer and not the least bit important.

Since that 1HP is so critical to survival, it's usually a good idea to make sure you don't reach it too quickly, and that's where health buffer comes in. You're going to get hit, there's going to be time between the moment where you start taking damage and the moment your monk reacts to heal, and there'd better damn well be a good health buffer for that time inbetween. It's painfully simple, so I can't fathom why you're boasting this kind of nonsense, unless you think gambling on Protective Spirit to keep you safe is a winning strategy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you don't need all skills to be successful at PvP...I could design a build around just the skills one could obtain from Ascalon to Lions Arch that would be an effective build for PvP in random arena.

But you do need at least a certain set of skills to be competitive. Sure your axe warrior with Cyclone Axe can help win a few fights in Random Arena, but it sure as heck isn't because you're fighting at your full potential as an axe warrior. "But it's only Random Arena anyway" - sure, the level of competition there isn't very high, and you'll see lots of gimpy characters and builds come along (especially with the 10 hour trial accounts these days), but those characters will appear on your team just the same, so they don't excuse a poor build on your side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

one of my ranger builds has 85 HP...it'd take you forever to kill him

Sure, and a 55 monk can stay alive indefinitely in Random Arena if he gets lucky not to face any enchantment removal or diversion. Does that say anything about the viability of low-health characters? A level 18 character will have less attribute points and less hitpoints than a level 20 character, and will take more damage on each attack than a level 20 character. This matters, you can say all you want about it all being about skill, but either you're fighting idiots, in which case your victory is pretty meaningless anyway, or you're fighting competent players, and your lower level is going to be directly hurting your team.

Algren Cole · Sep 16, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Since that 1HP is so critical to survival, it's usually a good idea to make sure you don't reach it too quickly, and that's where health buffer comes in. You're going to get hit, there's going to be time between the moment where you start taking damage and the moment your monk reacts to heal, and there'd better damn well be a good health buffer for that time inbetween. It's painfully simple, so I can't fathom why you're boasting this kind of nonsense, unless you think gambling on Protective Spirit to keep you safe is a winning strategy.

Level 18 characters have enough of a buffer.....there's no reason for their amount of health to be a problem. There is no "defense" skill to level in this game so they aren't taking more dmg. They are taking a higher percentage of damage based on a lower max HP. Most people fighting in the Random Arena are playing with drok armor(everyone and their mother gets run to droknar)

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But you do need at least a certain set of skills to be competitive. Sure your axe warrior with Cyclone Axe can help win a few fights in Random Arena, but it sure as heck isn't because you're fighting at your full potential as an axe warrior. "But it's only Random Arena anyway" - sure, the level of competition there isn't very high, and you'll see lots of gimpy characters and builds come along (especially with the 10 hour trial accounts these days), but those characters will appear on your team just the same, so they don't excuse a poor build on your side.

you can easily attain enough skills by lvl18 for a jaunt through random PvP....If you're going intom random PvP hoping for a competitive match you're mistaken.

Quote:

Sure, and a 55 monk can stay alive indefinitely in Random Arena if he gets lucky not to face any enchantment removal or diversion. Does that say anything about the viability of low-health characters? A level 18 character will have less attribute points and less hitpoints than a level 20 character, and will take more damage on each attack than a level 20 character. This matters, you can say all you want about it all being about skill, but either you're fighting idiots, in which case your victory is pretty meaningless anyway, or you're fighting competent players, and your lower level is going to be directly hurting your team.

no...and my post didn't have anything to do with the viability of low-health characters...it had to do with the fact that 4v4 random arena isn't competitive...and that a low-health build could easily survive forever in this type of PvP.

random 4 vs 4 means nothing...it never has and never will. So why does it matter if one of your teammates is running a lvl18 character?

Silmor · Sep 16, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

Level 18 characters have enough of a buffer.....there's no reason for their amount of health to be a problem. There is no "defense" skill to level in this game so they aren't taking more dmg. They are taking a higher percentage of damage based on a lower max HP. Most people fighting in the Random Arena are playing with drok armor(everyone and their mother gets run to droknar)

I'm not so much claiming it's a problem, just that they're simply not going to be as resilient or effective as a level 20 character. They're much better to have than a level 20 who leaves at the start of a fight, but saying 'level means nothing in this game', which is the sweeping generalization that bothered me, is incorrect, and you've pretty much got the entire math behind Guild Wars against you claiming that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you can easily attain enough skills by lvl18 for a jaunt through random PvP....If you're going intom random PvP hoping for a competitive match you're mistaken.

If by 'enough' you mean 'eight', I'll agree, otherwise I can't see how you're quantifying 'enough'. My characters have typically been level 18 around the time they hit Divinity Coast, and for some reason ArenaNet really enjoyed placing a lot of the worthwhile skills well beyond that point. Not having those skills available means your choice of builds becomes seriously restricted; I suspect this probably doesn't bother your 'enough' criterium since you seem to imply that since nobody cares about Random Arena anyway, it doesn't really matter which skills you take along, much like you enjoy claiming that all of PvE can be beaten by putting eight random skills on your skill bar and mashing buttons. With that kind of apathetic attitude, your contribution to this thread becomes pretty redundant unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

no...and my post didn't have anything to do with the viability of low-health characters...it had to do with the fact that 4v4 random arena isn't competitive...and that a low-health build could easily survive forever in this type of PvP.

random 4 vs 4 means nothing...it never has and never will. So why does it matter if one of your teammates is running a lvl18 character?

Random Arena being competitive or not doesn't mean you can't enter it with a competitive mindset. A low-health build can only survive by chance, if you get lucky that none of the opponents brings the tools to defeat your gamble. That means you're setting out to survive against bad teams, in essence forfeiting any possibly competitive match outright.

It matters if there's a level 18 character on your team because it handicaps a team from the start. That doesn't mean a level 18 character doesn't have a right to play or anything, or that it'll guarantee your defeat (far from it in most cases), but given the number of players playing in Random Arenas, Random Arenas most certainly means something to them. It's clear you're only focused on your own entertainment though, so I don't expect you to care about that, let alone realize why factors that take away from the competitive aspect of random PvP matter to others.

Algren Cole · Sep 16, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

I'm not so much claiming it's a problem, just that they're simply not going to be as resilient or effective as a level 20 character. They're much better to have than a level 20 who leaves at the start of a fight, but saying 'level means nothing in this game', which is the sweeping generalization that bothered me, is incorrect, and you've pretty much got the entire math behind Guild Wars against you claiming that.
If by 'enough' you mean 'eight', I'll agree, otherwise I can't see how you're quantifying 'enough'. My characters have typically been level 18 around the time they hit Divinity Coast, and for some reason ArenaNet really enjoyed placing a lot of the worthwhile skills well beyond that point. Not having those skills available means your choice of builds becomes seriously restricted; I suspect this probably doesn't bother your 'enough' criterium since you seem to imply that since nobody cares about Random Arena anyway, it doesn't really matter which skills you take along, much like you enjoy claiming that all of PvE can be beaten by putting eight random skills on your skill bar and mashing buttons. With that kind of apathetic attitude, your contribution to this thread becomes pretty redundant unfortunately.
Random Arena being competitive or not doesn't mean you can't enter it with a competitive mindset. A low-health build can only survive by chance, if you get lucky that none of the opponents brings the tools to defeat your gamble. That means you're setting out to survive against bad teams, in essence forfeiting any possibly competitive match outright.

It matters if there's a level 18 character on your team because it handicaps a team from the start. That doesn't mean a level 18 character doesn't have a right to play or anything, or that it'll guarantee your defeat (far from it in most cases), but given the number of players playing in Random Arenas, Random Arenas most certainly means something to them. It's clear you're only focused on your own entertainment though, so I don't expect you to care about that, let alone realize why factors that take away from the competitive aspect of random PvP matter to others.

I, infact, do only care about my entertainment. Your level of entertainment is on you to provide...not me, it's not my problem.

The Original Post I had responded to clearly stated that they'd rather have only 3 players than 4 players with 1 of them being an under 20 character....if you believe this is an accurate statement continue arguing...otherwise hop off my nutsack long enough to realize that I was simply pointing out that lvl18 characters have the right to play PvP, CAN help a team and AREN'T as much of a hinderance as a lvl20 that bolts because there is a lvl18 on their team. At level 18 you CAN come up with a build that is effective and you CAN help a team win. There is no reason to map out on a team because you have a level18 on it. It's also asinine to say that 3vs4 is better than 4vs4(with an <20 character).

Don't worry though, I don't expect you to do anything other than disagree...you get wet spots in your underpants from following me around the forum...it's actually kinda cute.

GreatLich · Sep 16, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

See and that is the difference between me and the average PVPer. I want to play with decent people. They don't. If they don't care for my respect they're not decent people to play with. Thus... to me... they are worthless.

If this is so, then what are you doing in random arena? go to teams, find a group that you feel you can rely upon... stop wasting bandwidth flaming about random arena's when you don't want to or need to play in them

Silmor · Sep 16, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I, infact, do only care about my entertainment. Your level of entertainment is on you to provide...not me, it's not my problem.

The Original Post I had responded to clearly stated that they'd rather have only 3 players than 4 players with 1 of them being an under 20 character....if you believe this is an accurate statement continue arguing...

I agree with his sentiment on <20 characters, but I don't agree with the way he handles it - it's pretty selfish to just leave, since it pretty much guarantees the remaining team defeat, and it sure as heck isn't fun to play against. But considering you only care about your own entertainment, I can't see why you'd feel justified bashing someone who leaves groups with <20 characters because he's not interested in trying, similarly caring only about his own entertainment.

Algren Cole · Sep 16, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

I agree with his sentiment on <20 characters, but I don't agree with the way he handles it - it's pretty selfish to just leave, since it pretty much guarantees the remaining team defeat, and it sure as heck isn't fun to play against. But considering you only care about your own entertainment, I can't see why you'd feel justified bashing someone who leaves groups with <20 characters because he's not interested in trying, similarly caring only about his own entertainment.

cuz obviously I don't care only about my entertainment? I just like feeding into the preconceived you have about me being ignorant/incompetent/selfish watching you get a hardon every time you get to hit that quote button to one of my posts.

normally I send my girlfriends birthday presents. when's your birthday?